Knicks Fire Thibs! Clock’s Ticking: Who’s Really on Trial in NYC?

it's tuesday, you know what time it is. Front runner podcast collective is back on the air. I am your humble host, vince. We have a outstanding podcast for you today, but we got big news that we need to get to. First, there is a coaching change in Gotham. Tom Thibodeau, who has been with the Knicks for like five years, is out. We are on a coaching search. We will get to all of that. We are on our coaching search. We will get to all of that. We also will be talking about the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers, who will be meeting for the NBA championship starting on Thursday. We will break down why these teams are here, who has edges where and, ultimately, who is going to win the finals. But before we get to that, we're gonna have a history lesson where did OKC come from? Yes, we will talk about the Seattle Supersonics today on this podcast. So it will be a jam-packed podcast. I am glad that you are with me. I'm gonna shut off my ig live now and we're gonna get to this podcast.

So, without further ado, what it up, what it do, all right. So, folks, we got a lot to get to. The first thing is this Dropped earlier today, sean Sharania of ESPN dropped the news on us that Tom Thibodeau had been basically let go of his position with the New York Knicks. So let's just start here. Thibodeau getting fired isn't shocking, it's just louder than it should be, because when the guy wins 50 games, gets his team to the conference finals, gets buy-in from the best player and then still gets bounced, you're not firing a coach, you're finding a feeling in new york city. That feeling is called we're tired of waiting, or is it called? You've been jim doland? Have you been leon rose? We will get to that momentarily. But so, raya, has this one little factoid that we need to throw in here. Coach Thibodeau wins 55 percent of his gains while stewarding the Knicks as head coach. That is the second best in team history after Jeff Van Gundy. So I want you to have that sink in for a second.

Okay, here's a guy who, if we remember right, the next couple years ago, it wasn't this feel good feeling that you had. It was kind of like where is this all going? Are we waiting for this superstar yet again, this long awaited promise you know, forgotten son, that is gonna come save the knicks, and what have you? And then you just saw the team and leon rose and his staff put together just solid drafts and making really smart free agent moves. He went and just did it the boring way and then, when they were ready to make a trade, when they were ready to make their big leap, or what have you, they were armed with their draft picks. They were armed with other things that could put them in a position to go get players such as Carl Anthony Towns, such as Mikael Bridges, such as OG and Anobi. These are all pieces that the Leon Rose contingency have brought in, and I'm telling you right now that brain trust is still here. So not as much worry as far as the decision-making part of the New York Knicks is still intact.

But the question is is who will steward the knicks next? But before we get there, let's talk a little bit more about tips. I'm not saying that tips was perfect. Dude runs his starters into the ground like it's 2006. But I am saying he was a vibe, he was a culture architect and it was what the knicks needed. Now they say thanks for the blueprint and then toss the foreman out.

Okay, you could say that this tells this, tells you what the next isn't going to be about coaching, it's about pressure, it's about optics, it's about windows, it's about compression and, yes, this is going to be about james dolan because, make no mistake about it, what we do know of the leon roseled front office of the New York Knicks is this they have been incredibly patient, they have made the moves that they made and it is just taking time. Now, every time they make a move, they incrementally get better, which affordsords them even more time, which is great, right. But you see, a move like this and the knicks have taken another step. They were in the eastern conference finals last year. They didn't make it there. You, you know they had all the injuries whatever. Now they make it to the Eastern Conference Finals. And for his troubles, dolan fired our guy Tibbs.

Is that the narrative that is out there? Maybe Because, like I said, it seems very weird that a front office who's shown so much patience in the actual acquisition of players and when to strike on trades and what have you, to make a snap decision like this? Or will we find out in later days that this came from like team leaders? This came from like team leaders, like the Jalen Brunson's of the world, the OGN and LB's of the world, the Carl Anthony Towns of the world. I don't have any of that information for you as of yet, but as we continue to follow this story, I'm sure there will be some more words that come out of New York City. Now let's be real. There's a split screen happening at msg. One side, tibbs built structure, carved out an identity and he maxed out flawed rosters. The other side is carl anthony towns, brson and a $300 million roster. Later we still don't have four wins in May that we need to get. You know what I'm saying. We need to get those four wins in that ECF, that Eastern Conference Final, so we can get to the big dance. Now the front office has to ask themselves this question Is that a coaching issue or is it a team construction flaw dressed up in a coaching scapegoating issue? My take on this whole thing is that it might be a little bit of both. I'm going to tell you right now.

We talked about it beforehand. We did not like how tibbs was running the the uh, brunson, carl towns, og and anobi group into the ground. We thought that the brunson injury that happened in february would be more like a um, it would be like a blessing in disguise, because then you can get more optionality into the offense. We can see what og and anobi can do on ball. We can see if mikhail bridges could find that early days of brooklyn where he was on ball and he was masterful. Or is this? Hey, we went and got Carl Anthony Towns. Now I will say this there has been a lot of good in Carl Anthony Towns being on the Knicks roster this year.

What we did see in game six All the stuff that we were worried about with Cat, all of it the dumb fouls just just kind of just the play was just uneven. Also is he was he in shape enough for this series? And I'm not calling him that he's in bad shape or anything like that. I'm just saying that the pace that the pacers wanted to go at was definitely not conducive to call anthony towns now the knicks. This is a stat from sarea, the next playoff offense ranked eight in efficiency, but their defense cratered when cat brunson shared the floor. They were the bottom 12 percentile by synergy data. So they have two guys on their on their starting roster that are essential to basically the offense, but they're also literal absolute zeros on defense, and that might sound harsh.

I understand that there's a lot of brunson love out there and there should be. He's the damn engine of the offense. I get it. This is not a slander situation on brunson whatsoever. There's going to be some deficiencies. When you're six feet tall, you're not going to be able to get get over screens and things like that, unless you're just extraordinarily gifted athlete, which brunson is. A lot of things you don't think of gifted athlete. When you think of jalen brunson, you don't think of explosive explosivity. When you think of jalen brunson, you don't think of explosive explosivity. When you think of Jalen Brunson, what do you think about Kraft Guile, his uh, short area footwork, the painstaking hours it took to probably you know, mind the gold of that footwork To hone the skills To make sure that you look so balletic out there that nobody can touch you when you go into your many pivots. That you do, but nobody would say that Jalen Brunson is this all world athlete. So that gives him a. He's already diminished as far as a defensive player on that level, just on that.

Then you talk about his responsibility to run the offense and how they get into their offense and how they score points and what have you. So it's really unfair to ask Jalen Brunson to be this guy who's going to be like this two-way player. Now, carl Anthony Towns, on the other hand, is a seven-footer. He definitely blows assignments, but he rebounds his ass off. That's the first thing we will say about Carl Anthony Towns. Does he get lost on the perimeter? Yes, 100%. But is he strong enough to really hold up in the post? Hmm, that's debatable. So when you have two questionable pieces of your defensive uh structure out there and they're so essential to the offense, but they're going to definitely give the points back as soon as they're on the defensive end because you can't hide them, this is where the imbalance is.

And then there's this jalen brunson's post game comments. You know, you know what I'm talking about. They asked him about tips. He says come on, that wasn't about answering a question, that was him telling the front office you do this and you better get the next move right, because if you don't Go to war With a coach like Tibbs, every game, every playoff Is just a walk Away from neutral.

So this is where they are. We have a coach who ran his starters Into the ground. We got a guy who didn't want to make change until it was absolutely thrusted upon him. That's when the Landry Shammons of the world, the Deuce McBrides of the world, the DeLon Wrights got off the bench, world, the delon rights got off the bench, but beforehand we didn't see any of those guys. We didn't see any development of tyler colic. We didn't see any development of our guy dadier, the french kid that came over and listen, I'm not saying they would have been giving you, like all these, like these 18 to 20 minutes of playoff basketball that you absolutely need, but these are questions that you still have to answer, because we have no data to know if they're going to hold up in a playoff series or not, because Tibbs didn't play them, he didn't trust him, he used the regular season as, basically, hey, every game's a plan, every game's a plan. We're trying to win every single game.

Sarraya has this as a stat. Brunson averaged 30.2 points per game in these playoffs, the highest since Bernard King in 1984. I will say that again this is the highest since Bernard King in 1984. That is 41 years ago. He's not a role model, he's a cornerstone, and cornerstones don't like uncertainty. Well said, soraya. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Jalen brunson has given a lot to the knicks, remember he's the one who signed a very nick friendly deal because everybody was like, oh well, this dude can sign for like 38, 40 million. This year he took us, or a couple years ago and he didn't. He took less to fit more people in to make sure that they can keep the, the pieces around him that were successful the year before. And now the coach is gone. Who you replace him with Is going to be very, very important. It's going to be very important To that guy who carried your squad and averaged the most, basically, since Bernard King In 1984. Which is crazy to hear that.

So here's where we are. This is what we do know. The knicks have become a really nice team. They were organized, they are respected, they're tough, but they were solvable. Holliburton solved them. Boston would have solved them even worse. This wasn't a system problem. This was who can create a shot at .9 seconds on the shot problem. And is Jalen Brunson going to be the only one having the ball? Are we ever going to use our bench? So I'm sure the front office got real sick and tired of asking tibbs to use the bench guys and him just basically putting like imaginary earmuffs on his head and going I can't hear you. I can't hear you. Oh, we got a bad connection on the cell phone, whatever. Just saying so that part is going to be interesting when we start to hear some of this

fallout. Now. The next playoff offense in crunch time, the final three minutes, uh in uh. Five point games, 92.1 offensive rating the worst in all conference finals teams. Well, if your offense is jalen brunson and his footwork and what he's able to do, and you don't shoot the three-point ball very well in a series and you're basically a slave to offensive rebounds, and if you don't get offensive rebounds, you're in big, big trouble. It's hard to run an offense that way. So then, where's the question lie? Does the question lie in the coach? But does the question lie in the roster construction? We will get to that. And now I'm going to take a sip of coffee before I say this. And now Leon Rose is on the clock Because this was a basketball

decision. You keep Tibbs, but if this was a next step decision, then this is your team saying we can't just be respected anymore, we have to scare somebody. The problem is, once you fire your, the clock starts on the front office. Dolan's not waiting five years for a culture building anymore, and I wonder what the fan base thinks of this. Does the fan base agree with Dolan, with Dolan, or are they still aligned with the let's take a measured approach that the front office in Leon Rose has cultivated over these last five or six years? That is where the question lies. Now, historical fact toy for you the knicks have had 12 head coaches in 20 years. Six of them have been fired after playoff

appearances. So I'm gonna I'm not gonna say that again, but what I will say is this is that here is a coach that you incrementally, incrementally, got better with. This is a coach that has seen you build the roster. You use some of his intake and like, okay, what do we need? How do we, you know, how do we achieve this? You get an absolute steal. I mean a absolute steal, just literal mana coming from heaven. Yes, I did use the rob palinka line and jalen brunson, who was undervalued when he signed his first contract. He damn sure is undervalued signing the second contract because he wanted continuity on this team. He wanted to keep dudes together, and now you fired the coach that has built probably the most success that the Knicks have seen in over 30 years, like the Knicks weren't going to the playoffs. You know, regularly they haven't been doing this since, like the 90's, the Knicks weren't going to the playoffs. You know, regularly they haven't been doing this since like the 90s. And now here we

are. So is it Dolan or is it the front office? So let's give Tibbs the truth. He made the Knicks matter again. So let's give tibbs the truth. He made the knicks matter again. He made the defense their calling card up until this year. Up until this year, because I got stats that say differently this year. He built an identity in a place where the identity used to be just, hey, we're waiting for Superstar whatever to be disgruntled and say, hey, you know where I would like to play? I would like to play in New York City, where they haven't won a championship since 1972. Right, since you know they've had poor management for a long period of time, I want to go there. That is more a wish and a prayer type philosophy that you usually don't use. But that was basically what the Knicks were until Leon Rose and his staff got there. But once the system got solved in the playoffs, the identity has to evolve or get

replaced. Now you can say a lot of things about Tibbs. He is a floor raiser, no doubt. Like if you have a program that has struggled for a period of time, tom Thibodeau can come in and make you respectable, probably within two years. Easy, because he's going to get whoever your top two or three dudes are. He's going to get them to play really, really hard. Somebody's going to buy in on the defensive end that you don't normally expect to buy in and you're gonna have some success now. Will it lead you to real legitimate, like playoff contention, like championship playoff contention? The jury was still out. Now I will tell you that again. We will hear more about this, but from what I have heard throughout the year is that the front office would like some of the players that they have either traded for or drafted to be utilized for depth purposes, and that messaging was not being heard or adhered to by the coaching

staff. So you can imagine how that tension builds and builds and builds upon itself. We have a perfect example. It just happened in denver. It also just happened in memphis, where we had the front office and the coaching staff dueling with one another. Now it's a little bit different in memphis than it was in denver. It got really contentious in denver. It got to a point where it was so toxic that the damn owner of the team had to come in and instead of saying, hey, we're going to put you in the corner and we're going to put you in the corner, he said You're both expelled and we're going to fire everybody and start again Because it was so

toxic. We talk a lot about how it is incredible that you're trying to get, you know, depending on how big the staffs are or whatever, you're trying to get two to three hundred people rowing the same way, having the same thought process. And you would think, in sports the object is to win. Right, how do we do that? How do we win? How do we become successful? You would think there'll be a lot of collaboratory type atmosphere. You would think there'll be a lot of collaboratory type atmosphere. You would think there would be a lot of shared information. There would be a lot of mind melding and things of that nature. But, as you can see, coach Thibodeau had a way of coaching his team. He also had a way of trusting his players, and the front office definitely wanted to see some of these guys who they drafted and or have picked up in trades to get more playing time to see what they had. Also, you also might be able to create a trade asset if you have people off your bench who are being productive. So now you have more artillery to trade down the road, because they've created value in this player or whatever, at least some in. At least there's some intrinsic value there, because of the fact that we don't know there's theoretical value in this player if we have like little glimpses of productivity and

greatness. Here is a quote from tibbs in uh 2021. He says this team fights. That's all I've ever wanted. This team does fight for him. It does. That's a good question. So now what? Did they not fight for you hard enough, or were they just too tired? Tibbs, you just fired the guy who gave you structure, your star guard just publicly vouched for him. Your system has defensive flaws because your star and the guy that you gave up Julius Randle and Dante DiVincenzo for also is kind of a liability on defense and your front office, who has been bold when it needed to be and been patient when it needed to be patient, is now in a situation when it's scrambling Because the other thing when you do fire the coach, the new coach is probably going to have A different

system. Now, yes, is he going to work with the star 100%? But is he going to have Maybe some thoughts On what this team should and should not look like? Probably so, and does that jive With what Leon Rose wants? Is Leon Rose going to find Somebody that aligns with him, or is he going to find Just the best coach and then whatever that coach wants or needs for this team, where he thinks he, where he eyes where the success will lie, will he follow what that coach needs? These are all questions that will we come out in the wash? It'll come out after time. We'll have you, but we are so interested to see how it goes down. There's so much more to get to. Let's get to the

roster. And if you think this was just about coaching, wait until you hear what's next, because if you keep brunson and cat, you better build an ecosystem, and if you don't, then maybe firing tips wasn't the first move. It was just the first admission, and what I mean by this is this with tips being out, here comes the harder part firing the coach is super dramatic, but relatively easy. What comes next? That's where your decisions get really expensive and the first name on the war isn't Tibbs anymore. Who is it? Is it Kat? Is it Jalen Brunson? I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine Jalen Brunson. I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine Jalen

Brunson. So he signed a four year team friendly, like $156 million deal. Last year. He could have signed a bigger deal where it would have paid him over like $50 million, like something like $54 million. He did not. He waited or actually he didn't wait. He said hey, let me sign this deal to make it a little more cap flexible for you. That come on in the presser. That wasn't just grief, that was

positioning. Brunson wasn't defending tibbs as a guy. He was defending the idea of the team built around the principles consistency, toughness and identity. He's saying you want me to commit to you long term. I've done that. I've done my part. Let's not act chaotic, let's not act hastily, let's not just start throwing stuff at the wall. I was gonna say something else, but you know, trying to cut down on the swears or what have

you. When john morant signed with memphis and locked into grizzlies trajectory, you know I'm saying like he was like okay, well, I'm gonna be here. So now you got to build a team around me. Tay Taylor Jenkins is now gone. They brought in a dude from, I don't know, finland. Tumas Aisola is now the new coach and, if you notice, his philosophy does not jive with who John Moran is. So we'll see how that works. So again I how that works. So again I ask the question the new coach hire Is going to be monumentally important To who you have on this squad. Jalen Brunson is your star, albeit, a defensive liability, no doubt, and I know where everybody wants to go with this. Well, we can just replace Carl Anthony Towns with Giannis Antetokounmpo, solved. Do you really believe that Milwaukee is just going to take Carl Anthony Towns and no picks, because all your picks have gone to Brooklyn because they traded for Mikael

Bridges. So let's zoom in. You got Bronson, who's an elite engine, gritty floor general and playoff crunch time assassin, normally. Then you got Carl Anthony Towns Offensively, super fireworks right, spread the floor, I shoot threes. My range is 33 feet. You know what I'm saying. I drive to the basket even though it looks like I'm drunk. You know what I'm saying. It looks like he could not pass a sobriety field test to save his life. The way he drives with that basketball I I have to say it. It just look. It's like a bunch of arms, legs. You never know if he's gonna run into you, if he's gonna go way out of the line or whatever. You have no, no idea what he's going to do when he gets the ball and he's driving towards the

basket. But defensively, towns is a tax you pay on every possession against modern backcourt movement it was loud against Indiana. Ghost screens, empty corners, brunson and cat looking helpless. That's why mitchell robinson was in the game a lot. This is the thing they talked about all year wait till mitchell robinson gets back, wait till he gets back, wait till he gets back. Well, he got back super late. He did. He was very impressive helping out as far as that's concerned. But he could not solve all the woes that carl anthony towns creates on the defensive end of the wall. And here is a stat, here's a metric that serea and I have and here and we're gonna drop it right here the defensive rating with Brunson and cat on the floor during the playoffs is a hundred and eighteen point three. That is bottom 20th percentile. According to synergy data, opponents scored 1.13 points per possession in the half court when those two were paired on the court. Let's just. Let's say the next coach does manage to scheme around

this. You still run into the hard truth. You can't hide two minus defenders in the playoff series past round two. Eventually, a very good team is going to expose that and Halliburton like a surgeon sliced with screen rejection pocket passes and there was no recovery path. There was no recovery path to that. The one thing that we talked about before even the series started was that when you faced a team like Boston, they kind of helped you out because it was a lot of iso one-on-one type stuff. You weren't going to get that with Indiana and we wondered if all the ball movement in just the uh, the movement of the uh others you know the Andrew Nem nimhards of the world, the aaron neesmiths of the world, miles turner, pascal siakam. Pascal siakam runs all day, by the way. All day he's just running, he's perpetual motion. We wondered out loud would the knicks be able to stand up to that? And obviously we gotta got to answer and that's a resounding no. It could

not. The only two teams since 2018 to reach the finals with two below average defenders playing 30 plus minutes a game. Both had elite rim protection See Brooke Lopez and also Draymond Green, you know. So I mean You're talking about Now, this is 2018. Brooke Lopez, this is not 2025. Brooke Lopez who looks, you know, slower, a little more broken down, because he's old? No offense, brooke, you've given us a ton of great years. You're a warrior. You changed your whole style of basketball play to fit the modern era, but right now you're a little bit slower. My guy Long in the tooth. So the Knicks do not have a Draymond Green and they definitely sure do not have a Brooke Lopez. So where does this leave? Your wing core? Og Ananobi, mikael Bridges, josh Hart all high IQ, switchable, playoff tested wings but they're doing right now is compensating for your structural flaws. It's cover fire. And when OG's banged up, or Carl Anthony Towns knee hurts a little bit, or Mikael Bridges is just too damn tired Because he's played like 44 minutes of a possible 48. Which, by the way, is always the question, the whole scheme

tilts. Another stat from Soraya lineups of Brunson and bridges heart, og and cat had a plus 12.5 net rating in the regular season. In the Eastern Conference Finals it had a negative 4.3 so positive. 12.5 net rating in the regular season. In the eastern conference finals it had a negative 4.3. So positive 12.5 in, you know, but I want to say that their, their, their net rating since january has been negative 1.2. So there was something there that was telling us Some data right there was telling us that something was amiss and then the Indiana Pacers exposed them Because it went from 1.2 negative To negative 4.3. Net rating Mitchell Robinson let's get to him Still one of the best offensive rebounders in the

league. Very, he can be very limited on offense, you know he's not going to give you a lot, but he is there for a defensive presence. No doubt Mikkel Bridges, given the opportunity, can be a creator, but he doesn't get a lot of time to create with Brunson on the court, which we still think would be a positive situation for the Knicks to really look into as they are trying to figure out what pieces and what is going to ultimately be the roster construction that kind of gets them to the next level. Cameron pain um brings some um juice off the bench if his shot is falling. If his shot is not falling, then he's pouting and he's worthless to you now. Deuce mcbride, on the other hand, was another guy who brings a lot of defensive clarity to the team. Uh. The problem is is that you can't have deuce mcbride and jalen brunson on the court at the same time for long stints, because they're basically about the same

height. The hard pivot here is what kind of roster actually amplifies brunson as I take a sip of coffee. You need defenders who can switch up at the level. You need a big who can anchor and not just score. You need a shooting. You need shooting that doesn't compromise size. So what's cat doing for you in the second round, in the second war? Second round, war of attrition. Wow, okay, so we just dropped the

note. Look look at how denver built around jamal murray, gordon, uh brown, uh, kcp, when this is during the title run as far as cern. So switchability, low usage, makes need less overlap and more balance. Well, here's the thing. The key to that is the gordon aspect. See, if you had a gordon, if you had a, a Gordon, this would make your lineup sing a little bit. And here's the other part that people don't want to talk about. They made a switch late in the Eastern Conference Finals when they were bringing Josh Hart off the bench. That was good. The problem is is that you put less offense on the court when you did that with Mitchell Robertson, so you solved the problem and you created a problem all at the same

time. The offensive juice that Josh Hart gives you. Yeah, he's not going to score you 30, 40 points a game, but what he's going to do is be a connective piece to your offense. But what he's going to do is be a connective piece to your offense. He's going to be able to bring up the ball when Jalen Brunson is just being absolutely accosted by either Aaron Neesmith or Andrew Nembhard on the defensive side of the ball. Mitchell Robinson does not afford you that capability. So where is the next Aaron Gordon? And does it lie somewhere else? How do you get that piece? Can Josh Hart's ego stay intact and he be able to come off the bench and be out of the piece? He still played like plus 30 minutes. It wasn't like he lost time, he just wasn't starting. And also, is Josh Hart the type of player you want playing 30 minutes? That's another question you've got to ask yourself in this situation. So there's a lot of questions for the Knicks to have answered by the time we get to training

camp. Here's the evolution that no one is talking about. Brunson isn't just a scorer now. He's a tone center. This isn't Dallas, this isn't year one. He's the guy now, and the way you build around his voice is the biggest test that Leon Rose has ever faced. Brunson's come on, wasn't just about Tibbs alone, it was about control. It was about the future direction of this team and he wasn't just reacting, he was warning. So you need to tread lightly in new york city. And again, if this was a heavily james dolan influence decision, you might have just alienated your

star. Yes, that dude that we just said that scores 30.2 points a game in the playoffs, which is the highest number since 1984. By the way, I was 12 years old in 1984. That tells you a lot. Tells you, first of all, I'm super old, because a lot of you weren't born, by the way. Shots out to the Los Angeles Olympics. That happened in 1984. Shots out to Mary Lou Redden. Shots out to Carl Lewis. Shots out to Edwin Moses, you know, saying we was doing it real big in 1984, no

doubt. Now, who do you hand the clipboard to next? Let's go, let's go there, let's figure this one out. So you're gonna hear a lot of names out here. Okay, you're gonna hear a lot of names. Right, the one that we heard during the playoffs was michael malone of the of the four mentioned different nuggets. Okay, so let me get this straight you fire tibbs because of his rigid philosophies and outdated coaching style, supposedly, and you're going to hire michael malone, who also did not get along with his front office and also pretty much kind of just for lack of a better term just shitted on his front office about the, the young players, and how he was not here to babysit the, the rookies, and they need to figure it

out. What have we learned anything throughout this playoffs is that depth matters. We talked about it in the regular season. Depth matters. If you have depth, if you have depth, if you have multiple players that bring offensive diversity to your team, the more the better. Is Michael Malone, queens native Michael Malone, coach Jokic to a ring Super respected around the league? Is he the guy? So, if you're Leon Rose, are you bringing in a stabilizer 2.0? Are you hiring a coach whose star didn't think he made enough adjustments? Maloney yokich, reportedly buddy heads over usage patterns and tempo. Malone's exit was strategic, not scandalous and but not all clean. So again, you are talking about somebody who would definitely go against what leon rose probably wanted with tibbs. Hey, can we get some of these young guys in here to give our our core a breath? Hey, can we start to develop these young players? So then, when, when it comes down to maybe an injury or two, we're insulated by these young guys. So michael malone to me doesn't seem like the greatest candidate for this type of

situation. Now, another guy that was let go of his team unceremoniously mike budenhoser of the phoenix suns. Remember that situation? Yeah, my man looks super disinterested in phoenix. So he won a ring with Giannis. He has a clear system, but also known for his rigidity, needed Chris Middleton to ball out, to ball out, to bail out his offensive schemes in back-to-back playoff runs. And when he didn't have him, what did the team look like? So do you hire Coach Budenhoser, hoping that he adjusted his worldview, or are you repeating the TIV cycle with better syntax? The Bucks playoff runs with Bud in the final three seasons 5th, 6th and 10th, but in the final three seasons fifth, sixth and tenth he wins games but not margins. This is from a uh, anonymous executive. That's what the, the, the underlining tone of what booting hoser is. He is a same thing as tips. He is a floor razor but as far as like winning you things in the margins and seeing things like beforehand and all that type of stuff, that is not booting hoser

situation. Now another guy that has heard heard his name in a lot of rumors Is Chris Quinn, who is from Miami. So Heat Culture Player development guy, supposedly Squelcher's brain twin. But here's the question Did you just drop this dude into New York City With this roster and expect year one success? Because If you think Dolan is waiting through a 42 win season while Quinn gets the culture right, you haven't watched the Knicks for the last 25 years. Again. The firing of Tibbs has the fingerprints of James Dolan all over it and if you can't see it you might be as blind as Stevie Wonder. Here's a note from Soraya only two heat assistants in the last 15 years have become NBA head coaches. Neither made the playoffs in year one Heat assistants in the last 15 years have become NBA head coaches. Neither made the playoffs in year one. That would be a huge step back for our next team. Who made the Eastern Conference

Finals? Right Now we get to Taylor Jenkins. Of it all, taylor Jenkins left Memphis. He built a killer system with Ja, desmond Bain and Triple J and then the wheels fell off because of injuries, immaturity and regression. Does that make him a damaged coach or just a guy who had a bad beat, a damage coach or just a guy with who had a bad beat? But you can say a lot of the circumstances that surround taylor jenkins weren't taylor jenkins fault if you're looking at it from a 30 000 foot view. But I've talked to people and I've heard a couple things and they wondered out loud that was the regression and some of the immaturity in the locker room have to do with maybe the cavalier or laissez-faire attitude that Taylor Jenkins took as far as the approach to his team building philosophies and trying to basically create a culture of trust With his like top lieutenants on the

court. So how much weird do you want to see out of Carl Anthony Towns, new York City? Because I'm going to tell you something If Taylor Jenkins comes there, if Taylor Jenkins comes to New York City, we are going to see All of the Carl Anthony Towns Let your freak flag wave, super high Type of stuff, all the dumb stuff that we saw in Minnesota. And it kind of showed itself In the Eastern Conference Finals Against the Pacers. He kind of held it in for most of the year. But man boy, like we said in the last part, there's going to be four or five times during a game where you're just going to shake your head and go what the hell is Carl doing right now? What is Cat doing? What is that? I don't know. Oh shit, he's doing it again. Oh, that's bad. So I don't know if Mr Jenkins is really the one you want when it comes to this

situation. Now let's talk about some college coaches. Well, there was that dumb rumor about Dan Hurley, so let's get to some of the other options that are on the board for the New York Knicks, because there are a couple of interesting candidates, candidates. One, somebody that we all heard of, who supposedly was open to the laker job, was flown out, you know, uh, in 2024 for that job, and that's dan hurley. So the yukon coach has flirted with the NBA before. He's a bright mind, great offensive, great coaching philosophies for the college system. I don't know if his shtick, or whatever you want to call it, will work in the NBA, because he's very intense and I just wonder how that will play in the NBA. Now, a guy who said he is done coaching, done coaching. But if there was one place that Jay Wright would un-retire and come back to, it might be the Knicks, and it might be because of Brunson, mikael Bridges and what have you. You know that might be the way of doing it. This man was coaching 40 games a year in Philly. That's not the same as handling 82 at MSG, plus Dolan peeking over your shoulder every single time. And college, college coaches to the NBA in the last 15 years. The winning records, with winning records in the first three season, brad stevens, that's it. That is

it. So, not as, not as easy as it might sound to me, we do have another guy and this is somebody who is on the staff now. It's a Daisuke Yashimoto. Now, yosh has been there. Uh, he's been on staff forever, trusted, known commodity. Feels like if everyone says no option, the locker room could rally around this dude as a short time, short-term situation. But the optics is you fire tips just to promote his assistant. That doesn't sell growth. The feel the. The knicks need to feel like they're taking a step up and also, you know, this is an organization that feels, uh, they have a sense of um, I don't know if you want to call it just a. They believe their brand is really, really big and I don't think that daisuke yashimoto would be the type of guy, would be the big, splashy type of guy that would, um, kind of entice the fan base Of New York

City. Where does that leave us? Let's throw one more name out there. Now, if you really want Just some absolute Just Off the dome, just craziness, some real Silicon Valley startup energy, look no further Than Gainesville, florida, and we take Ty Golden out of Florida. He listen, dude, was in the natty. You know saying winning natties is always a good time. They just finished some sort of title IX investigation into harassment claims that were found no wrongdoing, and still do you bring that into this market with this

roster? Golden's system is ridiculous. He has built just. His offense is good. His defense is good. His defense is good. He has good sound principles. He is a guy whose name is on a lot of short lists. A lot of NBA people like this guy a lot. Um, he's giving off like Billy Donovan vibes back in the day. So if you're thinking about going outside the box, todd Golden would be the

choice. Gordon's Florida team led D1 in points per possession in the 2024-2025 season, but they had no players over 6'9 that had like, like, listen, they had two seven footers out there doing their thing. They had Walter Clayton Jr out here looking like Steph Curry. So when you sit there and you talk about offense and how to build one, and if you don't have, like, a traditional point guard or whatever case may be, here's a guy who can definitely bring some innovation to your team. Here's what no one's saying. What if the knicks don't want a loud coach? What if the the hire is someone quiet so the front office can consolidate power? Because if you know leon rose and you got to one shot to make this core work, you want someone who says yes, more than they, who says that's not my rotation. This hire is about the control and the soul of the Knicks and we will be looking intensely at who they

hire. Soraya has this last note the Knicks last non-interim head coaches fired in year three or earlier, all after roster overhauls. So now it's your turn next, fans, who do you want holding a clipboard? Who do you want pushing the buttons on roster construction and rotations and things of that nature? Tibs is gone. Who's the next coach of the

knicks? Hit us up on twitter at frontrunner pc or also hit our producer up at rea. Underscore fudge frpc. Best will be read on Friday's pot, okay, so drop us a line, no doubt. If you want to email us, it's at frontrunnercom pc at gmailcom. I'll definitely take your submissions there as well. You know what I'm saying. We will make sure that happens for

you. Now we need to get to one thing. Before we get to this preview of the oklahoma city uh thing, and we actually might drop the preview to the oklahoma city thing as a second pot, because this looks like this is running long. We're already at the hour six situation. So before we get into that preview, history is written by the victors, but what about the history that was relocated? This year we're celebrating the finals matchup built on small market magic indiana pacers and the okc thunder, two teams under the salary cap, two teams that made it work the hard way. But for Oklahoma City, their stories more complicated than the Cinderella run that they are on, because before there was thunder was a Thunder team, there was the Seattle Supersonics and Sam Presti started and cut his teeth as a young 27, 28 year old GM with the Seattle Supersonics and the Sonics were the soul of the city. This is all stuff that you've probably heard before, but let's give you a little history. Lesson

2001,. The team changes hands. Howard Schultz, the Starbucks CEO, buys the Sonics, calls it a public trust, he says it's a community investment and then, in the next five years later, he sells the squad to an out-of-town group led by clay bennett from oklahoma city, a group that claim they make every effort to keep the team in seattle. That was the deal, the legal clause, the public promise. Now selling the Sonics as he did is one of the biggest regrets of my professional life. I am forever sorry. This is a statement by Howard Schultz in 2019. But too little, too late, my

guy. Let's be clear. This wasn't a team losing money or bleeding out. The sonics weren't doomed. The arena was wasn't ancient, but it wasn't great. The key arena sucked um. The team wasn't forgotten. This was about leverage. The group asked for a 500 million million new arena. Seattle said no. Clay Bennett filed to break the lease. Two years early, seattle sued. Emails were leaked that showed Bennett's crew was always planning to move this team. They paid $45 million to leave. They didn't just take the team, they paid a fee and took a

legacy. The fans were not silent. Oh no, let's talk about the people. Thousands stood outside the federal courthouse In the rain Chanting save our Sonics Posters, letters, local ownership groups begging for a shot. But the league stayed quiet and the deal was done. David stern rubber stamped and the relocation and oklahoma city got its team and just like that, 41 years of history was gone like it never

happened. This wasn't a star leaving in free agency. This wasn't bad management running a team into a ground. This wasn't a calculated handoff or a civic betrayal dressed up as legalese. This we can count. We can celebrate what OKC is built, but we cannot ever forget the foundation that this OKC Thunder team was built on. Seattle didn't just lose a team. They lost part of a civic rhythm. The people who grew up watching GP throw lobs to Sean Kemp, the Rain man, the downtown business built the Key Arena, the kids whose first jersey said Allen or Detlef Shrimp. Now, if you know, you know Detlef Shrimp was a bad boy. We couldn't do nothing with him. As a Laker fan, I used to watch Detlef Schrempf put up like 28 points on my Laker team. It was crazy. What's a memory worth when the league treats it like an asset and can be moved across state lines, just like

that. We talk about what Seattle had and why is it worth fighting for, but next we go to back to when the sonics weren't just a team, they were a contender. So I want to take you back, not to 2008, no, I don't want to take you back to 2008. I want to take you back to a decade before that. I want to take you back to 1998. For my youngins out there okay, listen, 1998, like the 1900s, I understand. You think like we were in black and white TV and we had coaching buggies and stuff like that. There was actual cars. We had like planes that were going from la to new york and all that kind of stuff. Bro, like it wasn't, it was, it was cool. Okay, it was cool. We had good rap music. It was

great. But 10 years before the relocation, seattle was stacking 60 wins and chasing rings, and they did it without max contracts. Superstar market sound familiar. Right before OKC ran, the West, seattle already did. Let's talk about that. Before we can call the Thunder's moment, let's rewind the clock. Seattle wasn't just tired of begging for a rebuild, they were killers. They had 61 wins that season, one of the best offenses in the league. Top three net rating, fourth in scoring, and they were a playoff fixture. Fourth in scoring and they were a playoff

fixture. The 1997-1998 sonic's breakdown was they were 61-21. They won the pacific division. Their offensive rating was 111.6, which was third in the league. Their defensive rating was top 10 and their net rating was plus 8. Second overall Points per game 106. Yeah, 106. George Carr was the coach, wally Walker was the exec and it was a slower pace Than average. You don't put up numbers like that unless your blueprint is working. Gary Payton was locking guards up, detla Shrink was stretching the floor, dan Baker was bullying in the paint and they was just killing people from

deep. We keep hearing this narrative that Seattle couldn't afford a team, seattle didn't care, seattle was a small market. No, seattle drew, seattle invested and what they didn't do is let billionaires bully them into building a new arena with taxpayer money. That's what this comes down to. So as you start to see teams and franchises build these new arenas and whatever, and you start to see them actually building it themselves, like a la stan kranke who built sofa stadium right and some of these other arenas, like, uh, our guy balmer for the clippers, he bit that he built the into a dome with his own money. Right, there was a time back in the day where nba franchises and nfl franchises just look to, just look to civic leaders like, hey, if you don't build us a, a stadium or arena, we out of here, dog, we just gonna leave the baltimore colts, now the indianapolis colts, the cleveland browns, who we can sit here and say, oh yeah, well, it's Cleveland Browns, they the Cleveland Browns. No, no, no, the Baltimore Ravens were the Cleveland Browns and then they gave them an expansion team and called them Cleveland

again. So there was this whole thing about movement and teams moving and things of that nature and it was all about can you build us a stadium? We want taxpayers to build us a stadium. Now, that sounds like a far-fetched situation now because we're like no, why would we do that? You got money, you, you know, you got billions of dollars. Go build your own damn stadium. That was not what it was back in, like the late 90s and early 2000s. It was not like

that. One of the main reasons why the los angeles rams left la the first time went to st louis and then came back. They wanted a stadium built here. La wouldn't build it. They went to st louis. They got a bad stadium deal there. They want a new stadium built. They didn't get a stadium built. They moved the team back to los angeles. So you know it happens when you talk about this financial standoff, not fan loyalty, not performance. It was leverage disguised as failure. It was leveraged disguised as

failure. The seattle i-91 vote refer reference here was a rare moment where fans voted against. Uh, subsidies for sports teams. That's not apathy, that's just a principle like how are we gonna build a damn stadium when we're trying to get like better schooling, you know, and better, like you know, housing situations and stuff like that? You want us to build you a stadium or arena? No, thank you. So clay. So clay venez said huh, you won't build me a stadium. He said oh well, we tried their line. Their they're lying emails in 2007 leaked in the lawsuit showing them discussing the move to okc while they're still in negotiations with seattle. Clay bennett caught in 4k before it was even a

thing. In august 2007 mcclendon admits publicly they intended to move the team, irregardless. Nba fines them 250 000. He don't care. Schultz sues to undo the sale. So harwood schultz of starbucks. He tries to sue to undo the sale, then backs off after nba threatens him. Right, the city sues to keep the team until 2010. But there was a settlement reached 45 million dollars plus 30 million dollar clause if seattle doesn't get a new

team. And then the franchise was gone, with the name, with the history and with no guarantee of return. This wasn't just a move, this was a memory wipe. So that little thing on men in black where they have the little the pen and they flash a little light and then your memory just goes away. That's what they were trying to do here. And the worst part, the Thunder. The Thunder kept All the franchise records. They kept all the all star appearances, the stats, the

stories. You go to Oklahoma City and they'll show you Gary Payton and their media guy Like it makes sense. No other pro league. Let's this happen, happen. That's not true, because you know we got tennessee titans over here throwing out houston oilers jerseys and stuff like that. That's crazy. I don't like that at all. You just don't take a team's history and reassign it like oh, this is just on the stat sheet, you're still stealing a lineage, you're faking heritage. And still, seattle fans didn't turn bitter, they turned defiant. We still see KD's Sonics jerseys at games. You still hear bring back the Sonic chance at all-star weekends. You still catch rashard lewis highlights on timelines, like it was

yesterday. Another guy that is kind of like that is, I remember, in listen. Gary payton and sean kemp are like the, the gold standard of the Supersonics, right, but there was a time where Ray Allen was with the Seattle Supersonics and he was out there like nice, like putting it on the floor, dunking on people. This is before a Ray Allen was just a straight shooter, just a straight sniper, assassin. He was putting it on the deck, getting past people, going to the hole, yanking on people, just yeah. So when okc hits the finals like they have, yeah, you earned it 100 and that fan base has earned it too. I always capable for OKC getting more television time than what they've gotten this season. But I will not defend you carrying on a legacy of the Seattle Supersonics. It will not stand. It will not stand. And my only question what does legacy mean when the wrong people hold the keys? Because, yes, the okc thunder are in the finals and and job well

done. Shea gilgis, alexander is an absolute nightmare and the team deserves his flowers and presti definitely deserves his flowers. He didn't cheat, he just acquired. He kept on acquiring and being just real, thoughtful about his processes. They got chet, they got j-dub, they built, they built development, they built culture, they built a vision and it's working. I want you to try something right

now. Go to Basketball Reference and type in Seattle Supersonics. It reroutes you to the Oklahoma City Thunder. Like the city of Seattle never would never matter. And like the 1979 of seattle never would never matter. And like the 1979 championship just gone, the peyton kemp era with george carl years, that was just a warm-up material for the thunder. Even this season, the 2024 2025 season, the thunder net rating is now officially tied to the entire historical records. That includes seattle. That's not record keeping, that's sacrilege, that's stat laundering and it might be blasphemous personally, you can't erase a city and still keep his stats. That's like cutting someone out of your photo and then calling it your family

portrait. What are we doing here? So when we say okc is making history, which history are we talking about? Because if it's their own, if it's just thunder related, I'm all on board. I think that's great. Let's celebrate that and let's celebrate that loudly too, because this is not a beat down of the okc thunder. This is a beat down of the nba. But if it's, se Seattle's bones, seattle's titles, seattle's heartbreak stitched into their banners Nah, son, we ain't about that. That is not your story. 1979 is not your story. James Donaldson, who used to beat the hell out of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, is not part of your

story. Michael Cage can be the color analyst for the okc thunder, all we want, but he was getting 18 and 19 rebounds for the seattle supersonics. Let's not, let's not cheat this game. Let's not play this game. Let's not sit here and say that the seattle supersonics do not matter. One of my favorite rap artists of all time is ice cube and he talks about in one of his songs today was a good day. He talks about the lakers beating the supersonics in his rap song. He also talks about messing around and getting the triple double. You know I'm saying he talks about that as

well. But when you're talking about one of the greats and he's got the seattle supersonics in his song, and, yeah, we can talk about, oh, this is a bygone era or whatever the case may be, and vince, you're just old and you're just reminiscing about old ass times and things of that nature. No, I'm not. This is history and you can't just erase it because you just feel the need. Oh, let's not talk about that. Let's not talk about the green and gold. Let's not talk about the rain man and gary payton the glove doing it real big in seattle. Let's not talk about deadless shrimp and sam glove Doing it real big in Seattle. Let's not talk about Deadly Shrimp and Sam Perkins Doing it real big. Oh yeah, ray Allen, vin Baker, before the alcoholism, all that. Yeah, jack Sigma, for sure. Gus Johnson, those are Seattle Supersonics. Those aren't OKC

Thunder. Like as much as you want to sit here and talk about legacy and what have you. Yeah, you got a legacy. If you want to say Kevin Durant is yours because he played primarily most of his career with the OKC Thunder and then he's bounced around to team to team or whatever, okay, you know what, I'll give it to you. If you want to talk about Russell Westbrook until the cows come home, or you know, punting on James Harden early, you know you want to talk about early okc struggles, for sure. You want to talk about espn not respecting you enough to put you on tv even though you're one of the best teams in the league. No doubt we can talk about that all day long. You inherited a franchise. You didn't earn its

past. Okay, see, I want you to know that this league doesn't want this conversation. It muddles the finals narrative, but it matters to me and it matters to a lot of hoop fans out there, because the NBA wants to control the legacy. They want to package it, they want to repurpose it. The legacy, they want to package it, they want to repurpose it and then they want to sell it to you. And Seattle story isn't for sale. The supersonic legacy isn't for sale unless it's retro merch that features on how KD almost brought them a title in

OKC. But legacy doesn't live on league servers. It lives in fans memories and the dudes is still wearing the sonic warm-ups at Rucker Park and the moms who had season tickets in the 90s and the kids who weren't even alive when the team left but still feel the betrayal to this day. You can reassign stats, you can relocate trophies, but you can't steal belongings. So what happens now? Well, we know that the boston sale has gone well and they got the six billion, or whatever the case may be. So we're

getting. We're on the road to um expansion. We're on the road to it and I hear through the grapevine that Seattle is one of the teams that's in consideration. I'm going to say this right now and it's probably going to be hard to hear. For the first time probably, adam Silver is going to get real pressure. One of the expansion teams 100% should be the Seattle Supersonics and all of the Records from

2008. And below Should go back to the Supersonics and have nothing to do with the OKC Thunder. That might sound harsh to OKC fans, but I'm going to tell you right now y'all not going to miss those, because the only thing you hear about is the memories that the Thunder have created for you. You weren't there when they were tearing down like the key. You know, you know how decrepit the key arena was and stuff like that, and just knowing that your team was like about to leave and there was nothing you can do about it. You might be mad about not being on tv, but your franchise wasn't ripped away from

you. We want to say this the best part of you is you Make sure that you are seeing and having people who support you exhibit these behaviors, that they are literally down for you, that they are like holding down for you, treating you well, and they are giving you what you need. Treating you well, um, and they are giving you what you need, you know, to make sure that you are successful and you're just a glowing member of society. Now, if you got people in your life that are like that, that are really like locked in for you, what you want to do is make sure that you acknowledge those people, appreciate those who are doing this for you. You also want to make sure that these people are loved and cared for and thought of, because when you give it back, you get it back in return double fold, triple fold, all those type of things. Now, if you're doing all that, then you are well-rounded individual and if you're a well-rounded individual, there's only one place for you front runner podcast collective. This is where you get all your hoops talk. We do a real big tuesday and friday for your listening

pleasure. Also, we hit you with the blog, which is the second screen experience, which no other pod does. Nobody tries to give you like a second screen experience, which no other pod does. Nobody tries to give you like a second screen experience. Only the Frontrunner Podcast Collector can do that for you, baby. So, with that being said, soraya is my girl. She's going to go ahead. She's the producer of this show. She's locked in every single day to make us sound good. We want to give her a shout out now. Also, if you want to shout her out, you go on twitter or you go on blue sky and you frpc hyphen rhea dot b sky dot social. All right, make sure you are following and, with that said, we're gonna go ahead and shut it down. Deuces.